I figure of I ever want to simulate raising children, I'll just bring two dogs and two cats into the

This morning I made an attempt to get into work. I've burned through all my vacation, sicktime and personal time on snow days, and now any days I have to miss are unpaid. So I attempted to get out of my parking lot.

The truck made it out just fine...till I tried to turn up the hill. The truck immediately began to slide down the hill. I tried to straighten up into my parking spot again, but instead just proceeded to slip and twist more.

Emily began trying to push the truck up the hill as I powered the wheels, but the truck wasn't moving. Two other folks pushed then got in the back while Emily attempted to get me back into my spot - not happening. I began jumping in the bumper - and ended up slipping off and falling on my back - this is my fourth fall since all this happened, and my back is killing me.

Eventually I gave up on trying to get back into my spot, and try to park somewhere on the road to my complex. I reversed it till I was finally 90 degrees from my plot and aimed down the road. According to Emily she managed to help me straighten up by simply PUSHING my pickup into place, wheels locked - it was that slick.

I managed to power up the hill finally, and made the turn on to the next hill. The apartment complex had finally cleared a little ice around the entrance and sanded the snow for a bit up the first hill, so I was able to power up the first rise with no problem.

The problem became the second rise - trying to power up the second rise, I began to slip - and not just the losing traction kind of slip, but a full spin. I ended up 180 degrees, pointing back down the rise. I took that as a sign of "You're not going to work today" and aimed back home. I made the hills just fine, but as I went into my parking space, I slid hard across the carport and landed in the spot next to the one assigned to me. No amount of work was getting that pickup out of there, I just threw my hands up, and gave up (after calling work, and then my manager's office that I was parked in someone elses space and couldn't get out).

Today was above freezing. IT was sunny, too. And yet, the ice is going nowhere. Why?

We went out on the road that leads to my parking lot with a tire iron and hammer. I chiseled down to the pavement and measured it.



THERE IS AN INCH AND A HALF OF PURE ICE ON THE ROAD. Not snow, but COMPACTED ICE. On a hill slope. I don't live on a road anymore, this is officially a skislope. Or an ice rink. No one, including 4x4s and people with chains, are getting out of the complex without a fight with this stuff.

This is just insane. First, our complex never did anything to the snow pack until TODAY, five days into the snow event, and the city has never plowed our road up our hill, as far as we can tell, they have NO PLANS TO.

I realize this is a once in forty year storm (with MORE snow to come!), but this is ridiculous. If State College, Pennsylvania, a town about the size of Renton, can plough all their roads every day before rush hour (or at least sand/cinder/salt them), Renton should be able to. Especially the hill areas as the flat areas are just fine.

Instead, I live on a ski slope with no conceivable way to get to work until this all melts away, and that is a long time coming. Especially if there's no ploughs or sand. The ones I really deel sorry for are the folks in the lower areas of our complex. They can't even get NEAR to the apartment entrance because the hills are too steep.

My god, people, MAINTAIN THE ROADS! I've already called in for work tomorrow, too - but if this keeps up, I'm totally out of money, and the paycheck will just hurt like hell exactly when I need money the most.

I figure of I ever want to simulate raising children, I'll just bring two dogs and two cats into the

This morning I made an attempt to get into work. I've burned through all my vacation, sicktime and personal time on snow days, and now any days I have to miss are unpaid. So I attempted to get out of my parking lot.

The truck made it out just fine...till I tried to turn up the hill. The truck immediately began to slide down the hill. I tried to straighten up into my parking spot again, but instead just proceeded to slip and twist more.

Emily began trying to push the truck up the hill as I powered the wheels, but the truck wasn't moving. Two other folks pushed then got in the back while Emily attempted to get me back into my spot - not happening. I began jumping in the bumper - and ended up slipping off and falling on my back - this is my fourth fall since all this happened, and my back is killing me.

Eventually I gave up on trying to get back into my spot, and try to park somewhere on the road to my complex. I reversed it till I was finally 90 degrees from my plot and aimed down the road. According to Emily she managed to help me straighten up by simply PUSHING my pickup into place, wheels locked - it was that slick.

I managed to power up the hill finally, and made the turn on to the next hill. The apartment complex had finally cleared a little ice around the entrance and sanded the snow for a bit up the first hill, so I was able to power up the first rise with no problem.

The problem became the second rise - trying to power up the second rise, I began to slip - and not just the losing traction kind of slip, but a full spin. I ended up 180 degrees, pointing back down the rise. I took that as a sign of "You're not going to work today" and aimed back home. I made the hills just fine, but as I went into my parking space, I slid hard across the carport and landed in the spot next to the one assigned to me. No amount of work was getting that pickup out of there, I just threw my hands up, and gave up (after calling work, and then my manager's office that I was parked in someone elses space and couldn't get out).

Today was above freezing. IT was sunny, too. And yet, the ice is going nowhere. Why?

We went out on the road that leads to my parking lot with a tire iron and hammer. I chiseled down to the pavement and measured it.



THERE IS AN INCH AND A HALF OF PURE ICE ON THE ROAD. Not snow, but COMPACTED ICE. On a hill slope. I don't live on a road anymore, this is officially a skislope. Or an ice rink. No one, including 4x4s and people with chains, are getting out of the complex without a fight with this stuff.

This is just insane. First, our complex never did anything to the snow pack until TODAY, five days into the snow event, and the city has never plowed our road up our hill, as far as we can tell, they have NO PLANS TO.

I realize this is a once in forty year storm (with MORE snow to come!), but this is ridiculous. If State College, Pennsylvania, a town about the size of Renton, can plough all their roads every day before rush hour (or at least sand/cinder/salt them), Renton should be able to. Especially the hill areas as the flat areas are just fine.

Instead, I live on a ski slope with no conceivable way to get to work until this all melts away, and that is a long time coming. Especially if there's no ploughs or sand. The ones I really deel sorry for are the folks in the lower areas of our complex. They can't even get NEAR to the apartment entrance because the hills are too steep.

My god, people, MAINTAIN THE ROADS! I've already called in for work tomorrow, too - but if this keeps up, I'm totally out of money, and the paycheck will just hurt like hell exactly when I need money the most.

"A perfect example of Seattle road care being defective by design." --aspasia13

Courtesy aspasia13, here's whjy Seattle area roads are a mess, and why it would be so !@($!@ easy to fix if they'd just use...well, you'll see.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008551284_snowcleanup23m.html:

Seattle refuses to use salt; roads "snow packed" by design
Seattle's strategy for clearing roads relies on sand and de-icer, not salt, which is a more effective method of melting ice and snow.

By Susan Kelleher
Seattle Times consumer affairs reporter

To hear the city's spin, Seattle's road crews are making "great progress" in clearing the ice-caked streets.

But it turns out "plowed streets" in Seattle actually means "snow-packed," as in there's snow and ice left on major arterials by design.

"We're trying to create a hard-packed surface," said Alex Wiggins, chief of staff for the Seattle Department of Transportation. "It doesn't look like anything you'd find in Chicago or New York."

The city's approach means crews clear the roads enough for all-wheel and four-wheel-drive vehicles, or those with front-wheel drive cars as long as they are using chains, Wiggins said.

The icy streets are the result of Seattle's refusal to use salt, an effective ice-buster used by the state Department of Transportation and cities accustomed to dealing with heavy winter snows.

"If we were using salt, you'd see patches of bare road because salt is very effective," Wiggins said. "We decided not to utilize salt because it's not a healthy addition to Puget Sound."

By ruling out salt and some of the chemicals routinely used by snowbound cities, Seattle has embraced a less-effective strategy for clearing roads, namely sand sprinkled on top of snowpack along major arterials, and a chemical de-icer that is effective when temperatures are below 32 degrees.

Seattle also equips its plows with rubber-edged blades. That minimizes the damage to roads and manhole covers, but it doesn't scrape off the ice, Wiggins said.

That leaves many drivers, including Seattle police, pretty much on their own until nature does to the snow what the sand can't: melt it.

The city's patrol cars are rear-wheel drive. And even with tire chains, officers are avoiding hills and responding on foot, according to a West Precinct officer.

Between Thursday and Monday, the city spread about 6,000 tons of sand on 1,531 miles of streets it considers major arterials.

The tonnage, sprinkled atop the packed snow, amounts to 1.4 pounds of sand per linear foot of roadway, an amount one expert said might be too little to provide effective traction.

"Hmmm. Six thousand tons of sand for that length of road doesn't seem like it's enough," said Diane Spector, a water-resources planner for Wenck Associates, which evaluated snow and ice clearance for nine cities in the Midwest.

Spector and snow-control experts in four cities said sand is typically mixed with salt and used for trouble spots.

"The occasional application of salt is probably not going to have a lasting effect" on the environment, Spector said. But she cautioned it's highly dependent on where it's used, how often and how much is applied.

Seattle's stand against using salt is not shared by the state Department of Transportation, which has battled the latest storms in Western Washington with de-icer, 5,800 tons of salt and 11,500 cubic yards of salt and sand mix, said spokesman Travis Phelps.

Many cities are moving away from sand because it clogs the sewers, runs into waterways, creates air pollution and costs more to clean up.

Its main attraction is that it typically costs less than one-fifth the price of salt, according to Spector.

"We never use sand," said Ann Williams, spokeswoman for Denver's Department of Public Works. "Sand causes dust, and there's also water-quality issues where it goes into streets and into our rivers."

Instead, it sprays an "anti-icing" agent on dry roads before the snow falls and then a combination of chemicals to melt the ice.

Cheryl Kuck, spokeswoman for the Portland Bureau of Transportation, said her city prepared the streets last week with the "anti-icing" spray. Once the snow started, Portland used chemical de-icers, followed by plowing with 55 plows and treating trouble spots with sand and gravel.

Although the city had plowed 29 of its 36 major routes, "nothing is clear," Kuck said late Monday afternoon. "This is a difficult and challenging situation that's going to take us a long time to recover from."

Wiggins, of Seattle's transportation department, said the city's 27 trucks had plowed and sanded 100 percent of Seattle's main roads, and were going back for second and third passes.

"It's tough going. I won't argue with you on that," he said. But here in Seattle, "we're sensitive about everything we do that impacts the environment."

There's environmental impact, then there's WE'RE GOING TO DIE WHEN WE DRIVE OFF A CLIFF BECAUSE THE SAND HAS BLOWN OFF THE HARD PACKED ROAD. I think the Puget Sound can handle some salt right now...just dont' use it EVERY winter...this is really a crazy winter for Washington (or as they call it in Pennsylvania, "Wednesday.")

"A perfect example of Seattle road care being defective by design." --aspasia13

Courtesy aspasia13, here's whjy Seattle area roads are a mess, and why it would be so !@($!@ easy to fix if they'd just use...well, you'll see.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2008551284_snowcleanup23m.html:

Seattle refuses to use salt; roads "snow packed" by design
Seattle's strategy for clearing roads relies on sand and de-icer, not salt, which is a more effective method of melting ice and snow.

By Susan Kelleher
Seattle Times consumer affairs reporter

To hear the city's spin, Seattle's road crews are making "great progress" in clearing the ice-caked streets.

But it turns out "plowed streets" in Seattle actually means "snow-packed," as in there's snow and ice left on major arterials by design.

"We're trying to create a hard-packed surface," said Alex Wiggins, chief of staff for the Seattle Department of Transportation. "It doesn't look like anything you'd find in Chicago or New York."

The city's approach means crews clear the roads enough for all-wheel and four-wheel-drive vehicles, or those with front-wheel drive cars as long as they are using chains, Wiggins said.

The icy streets are the result of Seattle's refusal to use salt, an effective ice-buster used by the state Department of Transportation and cities accustomed to dealing with heavy winter snows.

"If we were using salt, you'd see patches of bare road because salt is very effective," Wiggins said. "We decided not to utilize salt because it's not a healthy addition to Puget Sound."

By ruling out salt and some of the chemicals routinely used by snowbound cities, Seattle has embraced a less-effective strategy for clearing roads, namely sand sprinkled on top of snowpack along major arterials, and a chemical de-icer that is effective when temperatures are below 32 degrees.

Seattle also equips its plows with rubber-edged blades. That minimizes the damage to roads and manhole covers, but it doesn't scrape off the ice, Wiggins said.

That leaves many drivers, including Seattle police, pretty much on their own until nature does to the snow what the sand can't: melt it.

The city's patrol cars are rear-wheel drive. And even with tire chains, officers are avoiding hills and responding on foot, according to a West Precinct officer.

Between Thursday and Monday, the city spread about 6,000 tons of sand on 1,531 miles of streets it considers major arterials.

The tonnage, sprinkled atop the packed snow, amounts to 1.4 pounds of sand per linear foot of roadway, an amount one expert said might be too little to provide effective traction.

"Hmmm. Six thousand tons of sand for that length of road doesn't seem like it's enough," said Diane Spector, a water-resources planner for Wenck Associates, which evaluated snow and ice clearance for nine cities in the Midwest.

Spector and snow-control experts in four cities said sand is typically mixed with salt and used for trouble spots.

"The occasional application of salt is probably not going to have a lasting effect" on the environment, Spector said. But she cautioned it's highly dependent on where it's used, how often and how much is applied.

Seattle's stand against using salt is not shared by the state Department of Transportation, which has battled the latest storms in Western Washington with de-icer, 5,800 tons of salt and 11,500 cubic yards of salt and sand mix, said spokesman Travis Phelps.

Many cities are moving away from sand because it clogs the sewers, runs into waterways, creates air pollution and costs more to clean up.

Its main attraction is that it typically costs less than one-fifth the price of salt, according to Spector.

"We never use sand," said Ann Williams, spokeswoman for Denver's Department of Public Works. "Sand causes dust, and there's also water-quality issues where it goes into streets and into our rivers."

Instead, it sprays an "anti-icing" agent on dry roads before the snow falls and then a combination of chemicals to melt the ice.

Cheryl Kuck, spokeswoman for the Portland Bureau of Transportation, said her city prepared the streets last week with the "anti-icing" spray. Once the snow started, Portland used chemical de-icers, followed by plowing with 55 plows and treating trouble spots with sand and gravel.

Although the city had plowed 29 of its 36 major routes, "nothing is clear," Kuck said late Monday afternoon. "This is a difficult and challenging situation that's going to take us a long time to recover from."

Wiggins, of Seattle's transportation department, said the city's 27 trucks had plowed and sanded 100 percent of Seattle's main roads, and were going back for second and third passes.

"It's tough going. I won't argue with you on that," he said. But here in Seattle, "we're sensitive about everything we do that impacts the environment."

There's environmental impact, then there's WE'RE GOING TO DIE WHEN WE DRIVE OFF A CLIFF BECAUSE THE SAND HAS BLOWN OFF THE HARD PACKED ROAD. I think the Puget Sound can handle some salt right now...just dont' use it EVERY winter...this is really a crazy winter for Washington (or as they call it in Pennsylvania, "Wednesday.")

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